Avian Gamers Network

Apparently the new patch on Test really gives the ol' heave ho' to hunter DPS..

Hearing that... kinda glad I am working on my mage again, hehe...

Got him up to level 20 last night finally...

So if you don't see Mantison on, look for Manni... both are in the guild

Mantison is nearing 56... but I am getting tired of solo'ing the hunter... so gonna work with the mage for a bit

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

Mages are fun. I recently got my Frost Mage (Chrise) up to 25 while I took a break from my Warlock for a while...Un'Goro Crater was starting to gnaw at my mind with its endless supply of aggro range king Oozes and the unheard stalking Devilsaurs.

Oh yeah these devilsaurs are quite annoying...

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Flyoc,
Farm with attitude.

I was told this low DPS is not intended and devs are trying to fix it.

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Flyoc,
Farm with attitude.

Phew, and here I thought all the Avian hunters were going to turn worthless...

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"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"

They better not PO the hunters or we will lose half the WoW guild.

There are several issues on test right now...

Pets are doing 20% less damage... thats a bug

Ranged attacks in PVP now go off the defense rating, instead of level, for resistance, which melee attacks don't factor in... a defense spec'd warrior will block/deflect/dodge 8/10 shots from a like level hunter

Ranged attacks will also be added to the parry/dodge/evade list of attacks, as well as the current miss and deflection catagories...

All in all, it looks like the hunter is going to have some reduced DPS, but to what extent, that is up in the air.

I will still play Mantison alot, he is fun... but it is sad that the hunter is the whipping boy of the forums and some of the devs attention, heh...

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

This makes hunter even worse then they are now . Atm Hunter are well worthless to groups and only good for last spots if that, or even that lucky

What does a Hunter bring to a groups that another class can't do or even do better. Hunter DPS is Sad, and once the Pet dies and man do they die alot if they get any agrro your DPS is cut pretty good( heard pets are about 20-30% of your total DPS)

Hunter are still fun but the fun ends pretty fast when you can;t get a group for the instances you want to do. Becuase player just don;t want you.

If you were a Mage,Druid, Priest, Warrior, or even a Pally you stands a good shot at getting into groups really easy. Warlocks on some level has the same problem as a Hunter. Most player see warlocks as one thing and that is anti wipe so you only need one for the group.

Course this is what i see so don;t quote me

Oh, I know about not getting groups as a hunter..

I don't even get guild group invites anymore... thats sad.......

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

Manti you don’t get invites from me because you left me in the dust. I am just too low level to be any fun for you.


I am not at the end game, so take what I say about Hunter with a grain of salt.

• I have had no trouble playing with hunters that I know (avian). But stranger hunters tend to lack teamwork skills. Pick up hunters sometimes tend to be trigger happy and pull while casters are drinking. I think they play solo so much that when the rest of us are learning team skills Hunters are not. The best fun I have is when my brother, wife and I play together. When the situation goes bad they do impressive things to help each other. Next to the story and setting, group teamwork is the best part of WoW.... I think hunters miss out because they can solo longer into the game than the rest of us.
  
• When attacking a group of 4 enemies some hunters sick their pet on the Warrior’s target, or the Rogue’s… bad thing about that is as soon as a priest heals any enemies the Warrior can not keep aggroed will seek out the healer. This is an example of how hunters do not understand how to play with others. Most of the time a hunters pet is tank-like… they should use that pet to generate agro on secondary or tertiary targets so the healer wont pull them with a heal. The day a Rogue has to pick up mobs that a hunter’s pet avoids is the day the hunter needs to be kicked out of the group.
  
• In the past it was hard to know when to heal a pet because a priest could not see pet health... now with mods I can see pet health and I can heal them with ease. In the past it was too hard to look for the pet in the battle. In heal mode I play with most of my attention on the party frame… I cant waste seconds picking a pet out the battle pile. Having pets in the party frame was a HUGE help.
  
• I like it when hunters lead the group, marking the target and pulling is very valuable. There is nothing worse than your party accidentally attacking different groups of enemies because the real target was not marked. My brother, my wife, and I can almost read each others minds by how we position our characters leading up to a battle… but sometimes mistakes happen which would not happen if we had a hunter marking our targets.

Like in SWG, pet classes don’t attract the most tactical players. Tactical players choose complex classes where several spell choices must be made, and each battle is not necessarily a carbon copy of the previous battle. In WoW, I find my hunter to be more complex and tactical than I expected. He is nowhere as fun as my Priest or Danyale’s Rogue, but he can be very tactical. I think Hunters get a bad rap because so many non-tactical players choose to play Hunters and when the game gets hard a bad hunter sticks out like a sore thumb.

There are many good hunters who I have had the pleasure to group with. They are the ones that understand the needs of the other classes in the group, They are the ones that understand the skills and abilities at their disposal.

mant i'd group with ya if we were around the same level. havnt you heard of the crazy groups we've been running lately? 4 hunters and a mage or even 5 hunters.

after last night, i will only group with you guys. i'd rather miss out on running something than group with pick-ups. terrible, terrible experience we had last night.


im really getting tired of these elitist pricks only letting people in a group if you are a warrior, priest or a mage. with the right people even a group of 5 hunters can do alright.

Yeah, the group thing is a product of my level... I am in a limbo in the mid 50's kinda by myself... got some folks at 51, and others at 58+... so I am in between... no one's fault...

And yes, hunters can really screw things up if they are morons...

But I also think I am a VERY good hunter.. I can pull off some stuff that should have wiped other groups most times..

In groups, a hunters pet is a back up tank, Crowd Control, and a healers savior...

I have solo'd the majority of my levels in WoW... but I love group tactics...

And unless my pet is the main tank, I don't want the healer wasting mana or agro generation on my pet... I can heal him myself... and if he dies, he dies... I don't want a team member paying for my pet... I can rezz the pet after the fight is over...

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

A raid group needs one hunter to keep hunter's mark on the mob we're killing, but if the group's good there's really no need for it, just makes things easier with less experienced players.

As a warlock I generally don't have a problem finding groups, sure there's rarely a need for more than one (exception being UBRS for killing general) but warlocks are about as scarce as priests.

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"It's sort of a philosophical question...if a tissue fails to modify a skill that doesn't exist, and no one is around, will any devs hear you screaming?"

And that is what I HATE HATE HATE about gamers...

Who gives a flying f#*$ what the optimum group is... just play the damn game.

This is not aimed at anyone in Avian, but gamers in general...

ITS A DAMN GAME... the fact you can "PWN THOSE NOOBS" in game doesn't really mean a damn thing in reality... its all for fun... we really don't care about it after we log out....

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

I agree: optimum group is for the birds. If you MUST have an optimum group then you need not be playing a game, you need to be working somewhere.

There are optimum groups and optimum tactics.

People generally only follow the template and not their brains. Some of the most fun is discovering new ways you can utilize your characters. I tend to think most Avians enjoy that and that's why we are successful together.

We don't predefine the game, we work our way into the middle and find a good way to fight our way out.

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Dalaran: Arindel - Frost Mage (Mining/Alchemy)
Dalaran: Roran - Paladin (Weaponsmith/Blacksmith)
Dalaran: Baine - Rogue

I'm here for ya Cyrus! Still 47, which says something about my frequency of play right now. I'll get back into it though.

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Dr. Golga Bolg
SWTOR - Golga
Rift - Gnarlwood: Golgar Golgantua Golgate - Retired
WoW - Dalaran: Bolg Golga Virrok All Retired
SWG - Golga Bolg - Doctor (Resident) Retired
Eve - Edge Finn - Limbo
Section 2 - (Former) Director
What am I playing now?: The waiting game

/agree

out of all of avian, the people ive grouped with most lately are Jeger and Krynn. (and alatriel of course) but we run stuff with no issues. 4 hunters. i think we all know what we are doing. as far as healing goes, i try to keep my pet alive as best i can. plus spirit bond keeps me alive unless we really get hammered. but overall, we do pretty damn good with the 4 of us.

sure there are things that i miss, or mobs that i back into. we get our asses handed to us sometimes, but i always have a great time. when it gets to the point where i am mad about someone messing up a few times, that's when i know its time to quit playing.

my point in grouping is to play with people i enjoy playing with. not to run through end-game instances with no wipes just to get the loot at the end.

For me I want Valor(My Warrior Set, would love BeastSlayer as well ), So i will end up doing god knows how many runs in all the diff type of end instances. They take me from 2-3+ hours to even do them (forming and instance itself). So if a group fails or player leaves, to me it feels like a waste of time.

Now i been very luck lately got me Valor Boots and Helm without much trying, went to scho twice got my Helms then my Boots. So i am guessing i am doing good. got 4/8 of my set. But the Chest and Shoulders, sounds like they are in very hard places. so it will take me quite a while to get them

See, I don't see it as a waste, I see it as a failed attempt...

Its a game, you aren't supposed to win all the time, hehe...

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

I'd love to group with you Manny. I just need to catch up.

As for our all hunter groups (or the one with Deak the mage there), they are always a blast!!! Too much fun to be had. We've gotten to know each player's tactics (being fellow hunters helps in that regard) and as mentioned before, are fairly successful. A rezzer might be nice to have for the odd wipe but that's when we can relax and joke around in chat (and lord knows we joke around a ton).

Its these group sessions, and general guild chat, that make me love WoW.

To put it in Sims terms, its like I generate both Fun and Social factors at once. I visit my online friends more than RL ones.

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"I built me a bomb and dropped it on every MFer who got in my way!"

I agree that you don't always need optimal groups, fairly rarely actually, but once you try getting some quests done in the high lvl instances and can't have more than one group, you have to have an optimal group. Try 5-man Scholomance or Stratholme and tell me how you do with a sup-optimal group.

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"It's sort of a philosophical question...if a tissue fails to modify a skill that doesn't exist, and no one is around, will any devs hear you screaming?"

So, in other words Kharlaq, the instances that only allow 5 man groups... since hunters aren't optimal... we shouldn't EVER be able to complete those quests?

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!

Nope, not saying that at all, but you will need to join a group that has a few key classes: warrior, priest, pally and mage.

This setup is what I consider optimal and the last person can be anything really. What I'm saying is that a group that haven't got the few "must have" classes won't get far, a warrior and a priest (*maybe* druid) are the backbone and you won't get far without them. I'll go as far as saying that a group with more than one hunter (or rogue, warlock, pally) shouldn't try the hardest instances with only 5.

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"It's sort of a philosophical question...if a tissue fails to modify a skill that doesn't exist, and no one is around, will any devs hear you screaming?"

I am far from saying you don't need to be careful in high end dungeon runs.... but when the majority of folks think that Hunters have NO value in a group... well... thats a problem.

I don't expect a 5 hunter team to work... I just expect that the role of DPS should be able to be filled by a DPS class.

I am of the holy trinity school of thought... but I just hate seeing the though that hunters don't contribute spread.

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SW:TOR - Mantison Gunslinger, Ironmant Trooper, Manni Jedi Knight
WoW - Dalaran - Manni 85 Mage, Ironmant 83 Warrior, Mantison 80 Hunter
SWG - Chilastra Retired Mantison, Commando / TKA Master aka Trogdor !!!!